Chair:
Jane Wilmot
DPTAC Members:
Peter Barker
Jean Dunlop
Joe Hennessy
Tony Kennan
Janet Kirk
Valerie Lang
Peter Lee
Bert Massie
Jenny Meadows
Cath Simpson
Nick Tyler
Carol Thomas
Observers:
Ann Frye - DTLR Mobility and Inclusion Unit
Paula Morgan - Department of Work and Pensions
Bob Oliver - National Assembly of Wales
David Petheric - DTLR Building Regulations Division
Alan Preston - Department of Regional Development Northern Ireland
Damien Sharp - Scottish Executive
Peta Wright - Chair of DPTAC Aviation Working Group
In Attendance:
John Nicholls - DPTAC Secretary
Sandra Duncan - DPTAC Secretariat
Ffion Grant - DPTAC Secretariat
Tim Pope - DPTAC Secretariat
Harriet Samuels - DPTAC Secretariat
Caroline Booth - Palantypist for Jane Wilmot
Agenda Item 1:
Welcome, Introductions and Apologies of Absence
1. The Committee observed a minutes silence for Peter Field, a much-valued member of DPTAC, who had recently died.
2. Jane Wilmot welcomed DPTAC members and observers to the meeting. Attending for the first time were Bob Oliver (National Assembly for Wales) and Paula Morgan (Department for Work and Pensions).
3. Apologies had been received from Jean Ashcroft, Ed Bassford, Sir Peter Large, Grahame Lawson, Dorothy Rhodes, Paul Everall (David Petheric attended the meeting in his place), Donald Macdonald and Sue Sharp.
4. The Chair informed the meeting that the Disability Rights Commission would be represented by Will Bee at future meetings.
Agenda Item 2:
Minutes of the Last Meeting (12 June 2001)
5. The minutes of the meeting were agreed without amendment.
6. Members were reminded that following approval of the minutes the Secretariat would arrange for their posting on the DPTAC website.
Action point 1: Secretariat to make arrangements for the publishing the DPTAC Main Committee minutes of 12 June on the website.
Agenda Item 3:
Matters Arising (paper 01/M3/01)
7. Members were advised of particular issues within the matters arising paper (01/M3/01 with the agenda).
(i) Meeting with Sally Keeble on 30 July
8. Jane Wilmot, Jean Ashcroft and Peter Barker represented DPTAC at a meeting with Sally Keeble on 30 July 2001. John Nicholls and Tim Pope were in attendance.
9. Issues raised included:
- concern with delay in publishing the SRA Code of Practice;
- concern over the delay in the DDA taxi accessibility regulations;
- a request from Sally Keeble to develop benchmarks to measure the delivery of accessibility.
10. Subject to parliamentary commitments, Sally Keeble agreed to attend December MC.
(ii) Research projects
11. DPTAC is currently involved in three projects, these are:
- Attitudes of Disabled People to Transport. MORI have been appointed to complete the research with an initial meeting planned later in the week. It is envisaged that the preliminary results of the research will be available for the December meeting.
- Development Briefs. Drivers Jonas have been appointed to complete this project, aimed at developing guidance on including access in the brief for development projects. Peter Barker and Jean Ashcroft will be involved in the steering group The project is expected to last until late 2002.
- Knowledge Map. The University of Reading are undertaking this project aimed at drawing together advice, guidance and legislation on access standards in the built environment by mid-2002. Work is due to start in October 2001.
(iii) Regional seminar
12. At the preceding Working Groups Chairs meeting, the decision was taken not to proceed with the regional seminar. Members agreed that it may be more cost effective to participate in conferences and seminars organised by other organisations rather than for DPTAC to host its own.
13. It was agreed that the Committee should also consider alternative methods of publicising its work and informing disabled people at local level.
Action point 2: Secretariat to identify opportunities for DPTAC Members to speak at other organisations' conferences and seminars.
(iv) Food packaging
14. Valerie Lang volunteered to become involved in any future work on food packaging in the travel environment. The Secretariat reported that they had been unable to identify a government source dealing with this issue.
Action point 3: Secretariat to make contact with DEFRA regarding food packaging.
(v) Emergency egress
15. John reported that a full report of the fire drill at the June Main Committee meeting was submitted to the Departments Building Services officials detailing areas of concern. Members agreed it had been a worthwhile exercise.
Agenda Item 4:
DPTAC Research Programme for 2002/3 (paper 02/M3/01)
16. Members considered agenda paper 02/M3/01, which detailed possible research proposals. The paper also suggested some criteria that could be employed in taking decisions on which proposals to put forward for funding.
17. The criteria were agreed but it was suggested that the outcomes and potential benefits of projects should be seen in terms of short term and long term impact.
18. In discussing the proposals for research the following issues were raised:
(i) Members felt that several items were actions rather than research, and felt that DPTAC should identify current research being undertaken to avoid duplication and stimulate other organisations to undertake research into access issues.
(ii) It was proposed that DPTAC should discuss research initiatives in the built environment with DTLR Building Regulations Division and other parts of DTLR.
(iii) It was acknowledged that key areas for DPTAC research were education and training of professionals in transport and the built environment as well as private hire services, which would take forward the DRTF recommendation 7.3.
19. It was agreed that the Chair and Secretariat should take advice on which research proposals to put forward for funding as the process would start shortly.
Action point 4: Secretariat to seek to locate the draft specification for 'airport buggies' developed by MIU.
Action point 5: Secretariat to identify research by the Home Office on consultation processes.
Action point 6: Secretariat to speak to Dr Sue Warner in the Scottish Executive Equalities Unit on consultation processes.
Action point 7: Secretariat to seek to influence other research institutions to promote accessibility considerations.
Action point 8: Chair, Secretariat and MIU to discuss research proposals, identify other sources of funding where appropriate and agree priorities for DPTAC.
Action point 9: Members to consider how to address Sally Keeble's request for advice on benchmarking delivery of accessibility (by 11 October).
Agenda Item 5:
Implementation of Paragraph 6.5 of the 10 Year Plan for Transport (paper 03/M3/01)
20. Jane Wilmot reminded the meeting of the contents of paragraph 6.5:
"The Government is committed to public transport that is accessible to disabled people. The rate and level of new investment in this Plan will ensure that improvements in the accessibility of public transport are brought forward more quickly. Building in accessibility for disabled people in all new investment is a condition of public money being spent. Local authorities and transport operators should ensure that the transport needs of disabled people are factored into their plans and that the full benefits of improved public transport are accessible to all."
21. Members were reminded of the importance that DPTAC provide advice to Ministers on how 6.5 should be implemented, so that momentum is not lost. The paper was presented as a first draft and comments invited.
22. During consideration of the paper the following points were made:
- Specific DTLR funding mechanisms should include urban buses.
- The outcome of funding streams needed to be evaluated so that applications for funding did not promise access and then fail to deliver it.
- There should be an annual review of performance against the 6.5 objective.
- The evaluation of whether a proposal conformed with the 6.5 commitment should be quantifiable against a given criteria. DPTAC may have a role in developing an audit or appraisal process.
- Government must develop mechanisms for enforcing the 6.5 commitment at specified stages in a project, e.g. design, construction and project management.
23. MIU reported that some of the guidance issued since the 10 Year Plan commitment was made has addressed the need for funding conditional on access for disabled people. It was suggested that the Chair, Secretariat and MIU discuss how the advice to Ministers could be most usefully developed.
Action point 10: Chair, Secretariat and MIU to discuss how to refine the advice on implementing paragraph 6.5 of Transport 2010 [agenda paper 03/M3/01].
Agenda Item 6:
New Approach to Appraisal (paper 04/M3/01)
24. The Chair welcomed Phil Bradburn from DTLR's Integrated Transport Economics and Appraisal Branch to the meeting.
25. The Chair reminded the Committee that earlier this year, DPTAC had met with DTLR officials to discuss the New Approach to Appraisal (NATA) and the opportunity to incorporate accessibility for disabled people. It was agreed that DPTAC would make recommendations on how this could be achieved. Agenda paper 04/M4/01 set out the background to NATA and made some recommendations.
26. Phil Bradburn explained the role of NATA in enabling decisions to be made on transport investment decisions and the relative merits of different proposals.
27. Comments were invited on the paper, addressing how accessibility might be included within the process. Issues raised included:
- The need for a definition of accessibility relating to the needs of disabled people.
- The need to address issues relating to disabled people during the appraisal process.
- The need for a process for measuring compliance once funding had been approved.
28. Members were invited to submit comments on the paper by 11 October. It was agreed the Secretariat would then amend the paper and invite DTLR to consider how the principles of access could be integrated into the NATA process.
Action point 11: Members to comment on the recommendations for incorporating accessibility for disabled people in NATA [agenda paper 04/M3/01] by 11 October.
Agenda Item 7:
Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (paper 05/M3/01)
29. Members noted the paper on the Disability Discrimination Act provisions relating to transport and the DRTF recommendations.
Agenda Item 8:
Working/Task Group Reports
30. The meeting had before it the Working Group summaries paper 06/M3/01. Matters arising from the paper were:
Aviation
31. Peta Wright informed the Committee the Aviation WG would be considering the Passports for Pets scheme at its next meeting. DEFRA, Assistance Dogs UK and members of the Ports and Ferries WG would be invited to help consider how the scheme might be adapted for assistance dogs.
Built Environment
32. Peter Barker reported the CABE seminar had been postponed until late November due to poor take up.
Bus & Coach
33. Tony Kennan invited the committee to consider two papers, the first of which concerned the Small Bus Specification (agenda paper 07/M3/01). The text was nearly finalised and would be agreed at the next Bus and Coach WG on 27 September. Members were invited to submit any detailed comments to Tony Kennan by 20 September.
34. Subject to any amendment at the Bus and Coach WG it was agreed to approve the Small Bus Specification for publication.
Action point 12: Members to provide detailed comments on the Small Bus Specification [agenda paper 07/M3/01] by 20 September.
35. The second paper was the ATCO Code of Practice on Printed Public Transport Information (agenda paper 08/M3/01). Tony Kennan introduced the item in the absence of Ed Bassford, who was more closely involved.
36. Members were concerned by the wording regarding a minimum 8 point size. It was recognised that 14 point would not always be practical if handy timetables were required but 8 point would not be acceptable if alternative formats were not available. It was agreed to strengthen the emphasis on alternative formats being available and invite comment on the draft from RNIB.
37. There was also some concern that the wording on letter cases was confusing and inconsistent with recommended good practice. It was agreed to suggest changing the text on 3.5.1 to emphasise the use of upper and lower case lettering.
38. It was agreed appendix three should be omitted as it contradicted some earlier advice and was not specific to the particular requirements of printed timetables.
39. Subject to the above amendments and agreement from the Bus & Coach WG it was agreed to endorse the ATCO document.
Action point 13: Carol Thomas to invite comments from RNIB on the ATCO Code of Practice on Printed Public Transport Timetable Information.
Action point 14: Tony Kennan to amend section 2.1 ensuring alternative formats are available and section 3.5.1 on the use of upper and lower case letters.
40. In response to a query on yellow buses, it was reported that the trials comprised two vehicles in Calderdale to the best of the Working Group's knowledge. This was significantly less than the 100 vehicles previously envisaged.
41. Peter Barker reported on his visit to the trial of the audible announcements on buses with Tony Kennan. The system had proved extremely useful and resulted in very few complaints. It was agreed that this issue should continue to be pursued.
Personal Mobility
42. Members considered the position statement on walking (agenda paper 09/M3/01). It was agreed that the Personal Mobility WG should consider whether to post this item on the website and how it will be used in discussions with DTLR.
Action point 15: PMWG to consider whether to publish the position paper on walking on the DPTAC website.
Ports & Ferries
43. Joe Hennessey reported that Caledonian MacBrayne were building three new ferries to the DPTAC guidance and the Chamber of Shipping would be working with its members to promote the guidance.
Rural
44. John Nicholls reported that the death of Peter Field has left a huge gap in the rural task force as he was completing much of the drafting. There remained a substantial amount of work to do in pulling together the good practice material and fleshing out the draft report.
Action point 16: Secretariat to arrange for the drafting of the rural task group and circulate to task group members for information.
Taxis
45. Jean Dunlop reported on a useful visit to Crowthorne to examine the current standards of accessibility of taxi vehicles. Each vehicle on offer has some access barriers.
46. The taxi working group had also begun to develop advice on private hire services.
47. The revised advice to taxi drivers leaflet (agenda paper 10/M3/01) was agreed subject to minor amendments and proof reading to ensure it was current.
48. It was agreed there was a need for more detailed advice to drivers. It was suggested that the former DETR video for taxi drivers would still be useful. The Secretariat was asked to investigate whether taxi manufacturers would be willing to fund additional copies.
Action point 17: Secretariat to amend and proof read the advice to taxi drivers leaflet prior to publication.
Action point 18: Secretariat to discuss with taxi manufacturers support for producing additional copies of the former DETR video.
Agenda Item 9:
Any Other Business
Social Exclusion Unit investigation into transport (paper 11/M3/01)
49. It was agreed that DPTAC would be more effective if it considered alternative ways of contributing to the Social Exclusion Unit research rather than completing the questionnaire. It was agreed that the Secretariat should arrange for the Chair to meet with the SEU.
Action point 19: Secretariat to contact the SEU regarding DPTAC's input to the Social Exclusion and Transport Study.
2002 meeting calendar
50. The draft meeting calendar for 2002 was included with the agenda. There were on-going discussions regarding the dates and working methods of DPTAC.
Date of next Main Committee meeting 4 December 2001
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